Student recruiting at MSU - not all roses

[nicktaber58]

Ya I guess I'd like to know what happened there. All the rumors I had heard over the summer was they expected to see an increase in the freshmen class. Then when the numbers came out, I almost did a double take. I'm hoping that this was just a blip on the radar cause the previous two years, we had seen consistent increases in the freshmen class. That's why this year was so head scratching. Hopefully this was a warning sign to Bodnar.

Brints analysis is interesting. I received the same excuse when I spoke with bodnar that he detailed. Its a budget issue, and msu has more money to spend on recruiting and outreach. Which I think is an awful excuses. For recruiting students, i think you figure out by whatever means necessary to fund the money.

Therefore, as Brint pointed out with his daughter, their outreach doesnt ramp up until senior year. Which most proactive stude is have it dialed in before they're seniors. MSU pours on the outreach and communication junior year, when MOST prospective students are grinding trying to figure out where they want to go. So, UM should start with focusing their efforts on the junior year if they need to be more precise due to budget constraints.

 

[wbtfg]

She definitely chose the best school for pre-med! If she ever has questions regarding the med school application process, research/volunteer advice or MCAT study techniques, I might know a couple people that would be more than willing to talk with her.

i think UM does a really good job preparing students for health professions. I think MSU does as well. Im not sure theres a major discernible difference between the two in that regard.

 

[BWahlberg]

This is great analysis. We have GAR batter health sciences, as the example Brint provides above. Its frustrating that all the nuanced stuff in the recruiting process is definitely done better at MSU than UM. ANnd brint is a great UM alum that is passionate about his school, so he was able to provide great clarity for his daughter. However, the average Montana resident most likely isnt going to think of doing that, and will simply go off the better offer in place, on paper.

Thanks for sharing BWs.

I think if ones child in Montana is a sophomore / junior in high school and they don't live in Bozeman or Missoula, and their families aren't sports fans of either teams or very casual about sports in general - the early emphasis from MSU is overwhelming to Montana. But again, that's my experience only, maybe the UM hits cities around the state a lot harder than they do in Missoula?

 

[nicktaber58]

I think if ones child in Montana is a sophomore / junior in high school and they don't live in Bozeman or Missoula, and their families aren't sports fans of either teams or very casual about sports in general - the early emphasis from MSU is overwhelming to Montana. But again, that's my experience only, maybe the UM hits cities around the state a lot harder than they do in Missoula?

But my concern is im hearing a ton of missoula people, who are actually sports fans and even plugged into UM sports, being persuaded by the early onslaught from msu, mostly because I think a lot of families / kids are most earnestly college searching as juniors, am I accurate on this? Again, my kids are younger, so I dont have experience. This is second hand information.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Brints analysis is interesting. I received the same excuse when I spoke with bodnar that he detailed. Its a budget issue, and msu has more money to spend on recruiting and outreach. Which I think is an awful excuses. For recruiting students, i think you figure out by whatever means necessary to fund the money.

Therefore, as Brint pointed out with his daughter, their outreach doesnt ramp up until senior year. Which most proactive stude is have it dialed in before they're seniors. MSU pours on the outreach and communication junior year, when MOST prospective students are grinding trying to figure out where they want to go. So, UM should start with focusing their efforts on the junior year if they need to be more precise due to budget constraints.

Since my everyday job roughly orbits some around this - it is %100 true that MSU has a much larger marketing budget - you can only do what you have the funding for - so UM needs to be really tight and precise attempting to get the most "bang for the buck". I'm not exscusing it - those are just the facts.

The last thing I'll say is that yes, UM knows, and yes, folks working at UM (at least in my job orbit) are working their tails off to kick ass.

I do think the student recruitment has gotten better, but they still have work to do. Hell, a decade ago when I was a senior in high school, unless you reached out to UM, you weren't gonna receive anything at all from them. That definitely has improved just based off the few stories I'm seeing here. Things are getting better, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

As to this, a decade ago is when all the budget cuts (which included marketing) and buy-outs (also included marketing) happened.

Coincidence? I think not! Thanks for everything Royce! (derogatory). And by everything, I mean tanking the University.

 

[wbtfg]

Since my everyday job roughly orbits some around this - it is %100 true that MSU has a much larger marketing budget - you can only do what you have the funding for - so UM needs to be really tight and precise attempting to get the most "bang for the buck". I'm not exscusing it - those are just the facts.

The last thing I'll say is that yes, UM knows, and yes, folks working at UM (at least in my job orbit) are working their tails off to kick ass.



As to this, a decade ago is when all the budget cuts (which included marketing) and buy-outs (also included marketing) happened.

Coincidence? I think not! Thanks for everything Royce! (derogatory). And by everything, I mean tanking the University.

One of the interesting aspects of the data is that the biggest drop in freshmen is from non-residents....-27.24%. So it's not necessarily MSU that UM is competing with for those students, and I can't imagine UM's recruiting budget was significantly slashed from just last year.

I wonder what the cause for such a big (27%) non-resident decline was.

Those non-resident kids also have a huge impact on the budget, as they generally pay 2.5-3x the amount of tuition that resident kids pay.

 

[Griz til I die]

One of the interesting aspects of the data is that the biggest drop in freshmen is from non-residents....-27.24%. So it's not necessarily MSU that UM is competing with for those students, and I can't imagine UM's recruiting budget was significantly slashed from just last year.

I wonder what the cause for such a big (27%) non-resident decline was.

Those non-resident kids also have a huge impact on the budget, as they generally pay 2.5-3x the amount of tuition that resident kids pay.

I think the easiest place to start is in CDA/Spokane. It's right down the road, they could easily drive 2.5 hours down the road and get in the high schools, and it's far enough from home for those kids that there's separation, but they can still get home on the weekend. If I'm UM and you're trying to turn the tide with out of state kids, that's hands down where I'm starting.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think the easiest place to start is in CDA/Spokane. It's right down the road, they could easily drive 2.5 hours down the road and get in the high schools, and it's far enough from home for those kids that there's separation, but they can still get home on the weekend. If I'm UM and you're trying to turn the tide with out of state kids, that's hands down where I'm starting.

If you could offer them in-state tuition, maybe.

 

[Griz til I die]

If you could offer them in-state tuition, maybe.

Well that's the whole point of WUE right? You just gotta pound home to these kids what their options are.

 

[5280Griz]

I would be willing to bet the fall 2024 class got a bump from the football team playing in the national championship. Out of state tuition is very high now at UM although I assume MSU is similar. The cost of an out of state student at UM has doubled from when I was there 10 years ago. I am not sure what can be done to fix this but I would probably not go to UM out of state as a high school student now unless I got a major scholarship. The Dakota schools by comparison are quite affordable for out of state students.

 

[nicktaber58]

Since my everyday job roughly orbits some around this - it is %100 true that MSU has a much larger marketing budget - you can only do what you have the funding for - so UM needs to be really tight and precise attempting to get the most "bang for the buck". I'm not exscusing it - those are just the facts.

The last thing I'll say is that yes, UM knows, and yes, folks working at UM (at least in my job orbit) are working their tails off to kick ass.



As to this, a decade ago is when all the budget cuts (which included marketing) and buy-outs (also included marketing) happened.

Coincidence? I think not! Thanks for everything Royce! (derogatory). And by everything, I mean tanking the University.

What im concerned about is WHY is it such a budget constraint, and if its an ongoing budget constraint, how would we ever self correct? This excuse needs to be addressed ASAP, or we'll never get back on course. Or we'll forever be playing catchup.

Figure how to fund it and make the corrections ASAP. Just needs to happen immediately or we're sliding backwards.

 

[5280Griz]

I think the easiest place to start is in CDA/Spokane. It's right down the road, they could easily drive 2.5 hours down the road and get in the high schools, and it's far enough from home for those kids that there's separation, but they can still get home on the weekend. If I'm UM and you're trying to turn the tide with out of state kids, that's hands down where I'm starting.

Idaho which along with WSU would be the main competition for those students has gotten a lot better academically recently. I remember when I was at UM 10 years ago we had a few students transfer in from Idaho that were from that area because they didn’t like the academics at Idaho but now Idaho is ranked significantly higher than UM academically.

 

[Griz til I die]

Idaho which along with WSU would be the main competition for those students has gotten a lot better academically recently. I remember when I was at UM 10 years ago we had a few students transfer in from Idaho that were from that area because they didn’t like the academics at Idaho but now Idaho is ranked significantly higher than UM academically.

Maybe kids would prefer to be in the mountains than the potato fields. Strong academics is only one thing taken into consideration when choosing a school. Again, you just gotta drive home to these kids what their options are.

 

[Skookum-Jim]

i think UM does a really good job preparing students for health professions. I think MSU does as well. Im not sure theres a major discernible difference between the two in that regard.

They are both quite remarkable. Found these links concerning acceptance rates from each school. Not sure how current or true they are.
MSU

HPA Student Acceptances - Health Professions Advising | Montana State University

www.montana.edu

UM

‘Great Year for GrizMed’: UM Sees 74% Medical School Acceptance Rate

The Association of American Medical Colleges reports about a 40% average medical school acceptance rate. But if you’re a University of Montana student, the chances of getting accepted to medical school climb 20% to 30% higher than the national average.

www.umt.edu

 

[5280Griz]

I think there is a good spot for UM when it comes to recruiting students from Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, Utah and Washington. There are direct flights to all of them and the flagship schools in those states all have 30,000 plus students and the smaller schools don’t have the stature of a flagship university. UM can be a good place for students looking for something between the type of schools offered in their home state.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

What im concerned about is WHY is it such a budget constraint, and if its an ongoing budget constraint, how would we ever self correct? This excuse needs to be addressed ASAP, or we'll never get back on course. Or we'll forever be playing catchup.

Figure how to fund it and make the corrections ASAP. Just needs to happen immediately or we're sliding backwards.

Fair. From my vague-ish (not sure how accurate) understanding, budget is tied to enrollment - so, larger enrollment numbers, larger budget.

TLDR if you don’t want to read the below - MSU has more dollars to play with due to how much money they get from their Out of State students. They’ve been crushing it there for a long while - where UM hasn’t. It’ll be interesting to see if UM has indeed stopped the bleeding and can start getting more students on a regular basis to fill those coffers or if it was just a slight uptick during a continual downward trend.

Sort of a chicken/egg. Need more funding in the budget (easiest way to do that is by getting out of state students) to recruit students, but by and large, need students (again, specifically out of state) to help fill the budget coffers.

FWIW, I know the budget for marketing/recruiting has gone up each year I’ve been around (3 years as of this month).

I hear you Taber - I do know that (from what I know) folks are doing the best they can and striving to make it better. The last 5 years or so is the first time I’ve seen everyone (staff, faculty, president’s cabinet) on the same page and actively fixing issues for the long term and short term. EVERYONE is acutely aware of the ticking clock and getting the standard back to the standard…and exceeding it.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Well that's the whole point of WUE right? You just gotta pound home to these kids what their options are.

Yeah - the tricky bit is Out of State WUE students pay quite a bit less than out of state non wue students.

And, with the push to make college more affordable, more WUE may get awarded, but it isn’t really helpful in the short term for funding - since they pay less than out of state non WUE students.

 

[Ursa Major]

My middle daughter is a freshman @ the UM

MSU's recruitment when she was a sophomore & junior was far more detailed than UM's - IMO. She would get far more "stuff" from Bozeman and it showed they just naturally had a bigger / better budget where they could spend more to send to kids. It really did seem focused on "selling the state" so it felt a little off telling her about all the great mountains and rivers and forests... bc... yeah she knows that already.

UM's was very steady but was postcards and letters instead of pamphlets.

She's a great student and landed the state's Presidential Scholarship but UM and MSU informed her that in different ways:

- MSU sent a giant packet stating she has a scholarship each year for the following 4 years as long as she maintained her GPA and (as I recall) live on campus for 1 year.

- UM sent a letter saying she gets it for 1 year.

Me, being the negotiator, told her we should reach out to the UM and tell them MSU has offered this for 4 years, and to see if they would match it. She opted to email them and the response back was, "well yes, that's how it works, you get that every year here as well." I sent this feedback up the ladder bc clearly the UM's messaging to high school students needed some tweaking.

One thing that MSU did which UM didn't that also impressed me was at some point in her senior year they sent her her student ID# and a login where she can review and hold classes for the fall semester. Open invitation to do so, just so she can get ready for college - UM never did anything like that, it was an impressive move I thought.

For her, in the end, she's pre-med and she researched the two biology departments and the UM department has far better connections and secondary school placement - so she opted to be a Griz (thank goodness haha). She was accepted right away into the pre-med here and is currently taking a chemistry test as I'm typing this.

I will also say, her senior year UM really turned up the recruitment, the mailers and information became more detailed, the communications really ramped up too, being a Missoula kid she was obviously able to get some great on-campus access from her health-science track she was on in high school.

Also funny, she was also accepted into Tech and they would send her a typed letter every 60 days, that's it. They did that for 2 years straight but had no other follow up.

Any chance of getting her on the podcast? I’m having some shoulder problems and have some questions.

I already asked James about it and he just told me to man up.

 

[GriznMN]

i think UM does a really good job preparing students for health professions. I think MSU does as well. Im not sure theres a major discernible difference between the two in that regard.

Does MSU have a PharmD degree?

 

[GriznMN]

Any chance of getting her on the podcast? I’m having some shoulder problems and have some questions.

I already asked James about it and he just told me to man up.

rub some dirt on it.