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Instate Recruiting

griz4life said:
In state recruiting is such an emotional trigger. This subject always seems to have a trace of this sentiment that instate athletes should be entitled to a roster spot over an out of state kid. I disagree.

The team gets the players it needs. I don't think anyone would have been happy with the results right now if the 2024 class was mostly instate recruits.

The portal changed things. NIL money really changed things. Hauck used to ask in state recruits to accept less aid to free up funding for out of state kids, who are expensive. I bet he still does, though now NIL money has ripped the top off what's needed to to compensate student athletes.

Not only does the investment more, but the risk is higher because portal athletes are less proven than the ones FCS schools attracted before the portal when FBS to FBS transfers were less advantagous to FBS athletes transferring.

There are lot of kids starting for the Griz this fall who had never started in a college game. In that scenario, do you go recruit the athlete that faced more athletic competition and didnt win a starting job but was still in a college system, or do you go with Montana Joe fresh from Glacier High?
I don't buy the "coached up" argument for today's transfers. They did get time in a more sophisticated program than a HS player and should have an understanding of the basics, like attending class, eating right, regimented training, and explosure to a better playbook than a HS athlete. They should grasp what's expected, right? But are they coached up? I think we know how coached up someone who is third on the depth chart is.
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Bobby says the players on the team this year are very smart football players. Just a comment, not directed at your post.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
You have to choose, though. With limited scholarships, and spots on the depth chart, they have to make a choice. Do they want an RB from Sentinal or Eli Gilman more? Do they want a QB from Helena more, or Ah Yat? This isn't as binary as some are making it. The Griz recruiting footprint is getting broader, yes. I think that is a good thing.

As for all of these all conference players from the state of Montana, we had Bergen, Tirrell, Gradney, Rausch. In 2023 we had Bergen, Hill, Gradney, Graves, and Janacaro. The Cats don't have that many more from MT.
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A point they mentioned was that last year there were 8 Montana natives that were Big Sky All conference players. Out of those 8, 7 were bobcats. Not sure about anyone else but as a Griz fan I don’t believe that is a “win” for us when you see that piece of data.
 
HookedonGriz said:
I made this comment in the recruiting thread and it’s applicable here as well:



I don’t know I really like some of the in-state commitments we have coming.

Cats have what, 4 of the 5 “blue chips” from Vim’s list (a list that is just a starting point and not an exact science and definitely not a full proof list of where these kids will end up as contributors or players) and the Griz have the next 4 or 5 “partials” from from that list to the Cats 1. If you look at 247 rankings Griz have 2 of the top 5.

I’ll be willing to bet that some of those partials end up better than some of the blue chips. So as I see, cats got what look to be some studs and the Griz got some studs.

You could use your exact same argument with Hammond, who just committed to the Griz from Malta. He’s a bobcat family with Cats ties. Yet we got him. So in your view the sky must also be falling for the bobcats?
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Shouldn’t the goal be to get at least 4 of the top 5….used to be that way. That was part of Schmidt’s point.
 
BrownBear9501 said:
A point they mentioned was that last year there were 8 Montana natives that were Big Sky All conference players. Out of those 8, 7 were bobcats. Not sure about anyone else but as a Griz fan I don’t believe that is a “win” for us when you see that piece of data.
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But I just showed that wasn't true.... Last year we had Bergen, Tirrell, Gradney, and Rausch. So how could 7 of 8 been from MSU?

To your other point, I would rather get the best players. I would rather have Ah Yat at QB rather than whoever the top Montana QB was in his recruiting class. I would rather have Gillman than any Montana RB in his recruiting class. Montana HS football is not a strong talent pool compared to other states. It just is not. I want the best kids, not the most Montana HS players, and the way some fans obsess about who got the best Montanans is just a bit over the top, in my view.

The staff is trying to create the best team. Not the most Montana based team.
 
Downwiththefoe1984 said:
Is the in-state recruiting battle the difference between winning and losing??? Absolutely not. It’s a stupid argument. Eli, Ah Yat, Wing, Loud, Brooks Davis, Mike Wortham……do I need to continue??? We got studs from all over the map. The concern in recruiting & player development comes in the trenches. The Cats have the edge here. Plain and simple. As far as QB & skill guys, would you trade places with the Cats??? I sure as hell wouldn’t! We’re 6-0 so the coaching staff is doing something right. Let’s enjoy it! I’m glad someone mentioned Adam Jones vs Eli Gilman. We’ll take Eli. No slight on Jones, but we got our guy & plenty of depth behind him. This bullshit in-state recruiting argument sounds like a narrative created by Cat fans. Go Griz!
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The problem with this logic is it’s making it an either/or situation when it can or should be a both/and.

Schmidt’s problem was less that recruiting battles are being “lost” and more that with what he’s hearing, a sufficient effort isn’t being made. As in, the problem is the process, not the result.
 
PTGrizzly said:
The problem with this logic is it’s making it an either/or situation when it can or should be a both/and.

Schmidt’s problem was less that recruiting battles are being “lost” and more that with what he’s hearing, a sufficient effort isn’t being made. As in, the problem is the process, not the result.
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When you have a scholarship limit, it is absolutely an "either/or" situation.

Schmidt may have heard some things, and other people may have heard others. We just had a parent on here not long ago talking about how much better the recruiting experience with Montana vs MSU was. It will all come down to personality and preference. Look at the talent we have. This is arguably the most talented team we have had in Bobby 2.0. We have very much closed the gap with MSU from where it was at when Bobby returned.

The result is what matters. The result is literally all that matters, in my opinion.

Hope you are doing well, though. Inbox is always open if you want to talk more there buddy.
 
PTGrizzly said:
The problem with this logic is it’s making it an either/or situation when it can or should be a both/and.

Schmidt’s problem was less that recruiting battles are being “lost” and more that with what he’s hearing, a sufficient effort isn’t being made. As in, the problem is the process, not the result.
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Maybe they believe it is sufficient and are ultimately fine with the end.
 
hm.grwn.grizfan said:
The gist of what was said is that Bobby and his staff have become lazy recruiters and have taken a step backward in their ability to develop their players. They no longer recruit in state kids at the same level that they did before when Schmidt was there. They routinely whiff on in state players, fail to identify and recruit and develop in state talent and would rather go portaling hoping for players who have already been coached up. They routinely lose Griz legacy players to the cats. Another argument that they make is that the models of recruiting and player development at MSU and UM have swapped. In the early 2000s to around 2010 ish UM was a program that got the best in state talent and developed it while MSU looked to get transfers and missed on the best in state talent. They make the argument that now MSU gets the best in state talent and know how to identify and develop it, while UMs staff can’t develop talent and has to go portaling to get the dudes it needs, and will be hot and cold as a result, with some years looking like last year while MSU routinely makes deep playoff runs. They also make the argument that this is part of a greater trend at the UM where we basically suck ass at recruiting students on
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matchbax21 said:
We had a total of 3 kids from montana in the last recruiting class......3. Hauck in the past used to champion that we were winning with montana kids that was his formula and it worked. Sprinkle in the out of state kids and a transfer here and there. It's not just 1 kid that we've lost on, a griz legacy and we don't even offer him? Theres not much to complain about right now the season is going great and they hit on the key guys in the portal but look how that formula panned out last year. The fear is not being able to continue success with depending on the portal.
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Sorry, but your argument sounds like you are old and out of touch. Everyone freaking out about in state kids. How many have transferred from both programs for NAIA schools? Montana kids don’t equate to home runs every recruiting cycle. Times have changed. Bobby isn’t recruiting against Cliff, the Big Unit or Rob Ash anymore. Bozeman changed. Yeah, the city and the University. U of M stubbed their toe during that time period. Bozeman caught up. That’s great for the rivalry and Montana as a whole. It has taken years for U of M to try and right the ship. Years! EWU is no longer a powerhouse. Weber is a train wreck and Idaho stinks. Weird, but times changed and those programs are struggling to keep up. The moral of the story is nothing stays the same and Schmidt is living in the last. I also don’t think he likes Bobby and has a major case of butt hurt over the Sentinel situation where the lad ended up at MSU for his unsavory remarks. (I actually think he is probably a decent kid and just made a dumb mistake).
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Let's just talk basic geography. Wouldn't it make sense to recruit Spokane harder than most of Eastern Montana? It is closer and has a larger population. This is why I don't get hung up on how many Montana kids are on the roster or get signed each year.
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Given the state of EWU’s program and Idaho - it makes more sense than ever. More kids, more competition in high school and it is close proximity to home for recruits.
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
When you have a scholarship limit, it is absolutely an "either/or" situation.

Schmidt may have heard some things, and other people may have heard others. We just had a parent on here not long ago talking about how much better the recruiting experience with Montana vs MSU was. It will all come down to personality and preference. Look at the talent we have. This is arguably the most talented team we have had in Bobby 2.0. We have very much closed the gap with MSU from where it was at when Bobby returned.

The result is what matters. The result is literally all that matters, in my opinion.

Hope you are doing well, though. Inbox is always open if you want to talk more there buddy.
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To a point, you are correct. However, just for example, look at the year Adam Jones graduated. There absolutely was room for him in the class. If the talent is good enough, it is not going to be an either/or. You make room for good talent that you can develop.

Again, Schmidt talked about how clearly the process is working this year. His concern is that it’s not working consistently, specifically at DT. And, yeah, that’s fair. I’m not going to argue either way, not worth the time. Just clearing up what I heard Schmidt say. I am doing well btw. Fun season to watch!
 
ElrodGrizzly said:
When you have a scholarship limit, it is absolutely an "either/or" situation.

Schmidt may have heard some things, and other people may have heard others. We just had a parent on here not long ago talking about how much better the recruiting experience with Montana vs MSU was. It will all come down to personality and preference. Look at the talent we have. This is arguably the most talented team we have had in Bobby 2.0. We have very much closed the gap with MSU from where it was at when Bobby returned.

The result is what matters. The result is literally all that matters, in my opinion.

Hope you are doing well, though. Inbox is always open if you want to talk more there buddy.
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Absolutely….Bobby has done a great job cleaning up Stitt’s mess. I also think it is based on a case by case basis and would agree that Eli is better than any in state alternatives we could have got. But, shouldn’t the goal be to get those top Montana kids or as many as we can to go with the best out of state kids we can get?

We were not as good as the Cats last year and had we won recruiting battles for Grebe, Mellott, Wehr, Adam Jones, given Rylan Ortt a shot, and offered both Dowlers to get them here, than I don’t see how they go on the run they did over us last year. Plus it keeps them from being true contenders in the FCS by not getting those foundational guys. That’s the whole point. Those guys used to all be Griz and now they aren’t. Look no further than that in finding an answer to the inconsistency we have had in 2.0. I don’t think you can argue that the current reality in it being easier to retain more Montana guys from year to year than out of state guys.
 
BrownBear9501 said:
Shouldn’t the goal be to get at least 4 of the top 5….used to be that way. That was part of Schmidt’s point.
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My point is how do we know we didn’t? We wont know shit about these kids for a few years. Where would Colt Anderson and Marc Mariani rank on these lists and rankings? Those were dudes who became all Americans and went to the NFL who walked onto the Griz. I’m saying some of these kids we are getting may be some of the top dogs in the state after a few years when we find out more.

I will also say that if it came down to using a scholarship on a decent Montana player or going out and getting an Eli Gilman, give me Eli Gilman all day and twice on Sunday
 
Don’t remember anyone saying that they disagreed with giving Eli Gillman a scholarship. Or that anyone else should have been prioritized over him.
 
BrownBear9501 said:
Absolutely….Bobby has done a great job cleaning up Stitt’s mess. I also think it is based on a case by case basis and would agree that Eli is better than any in state alternatives we could have got. But, shouldn’t the goal be to get those top Montana kids or as many as we can to go with the best out of state kids we can get?

We were not as good as the Cats last year and had we won recruiting battles for Grebe, Mellott, Wehr, Adam Jones, given Rylan Ortt a shot, and offered both Dowlers to get them here, than I don’t see how they go on the run they did over us last year. Plus it keeps them from being true contenders in the FCS by not getting those foundational guys. That’s the whole point. Those guys used to all be Griz and now they aren’t. Look no further than that in finding an answer to the inconsistency we have had in 2.0. I don’t think you can argue that the current reality in it being easier to retain more Montana guys from year to year than out of state guys.
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Those guys haven't all been Griz in decades. I see many assumptions in your reasoning, and a lot of crying over spilled milk. I think the Montana thing is overblown.
 
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