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Seattle Times pre-game evaluation of Stitt

ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
So, where is the quote that backs this up? "As for the turn around quote, just search the Missoulian or SkylineSports pages, and you'll be covered." Note the words TURN AROUND.

Also, show us where Haslam or anyone, prior to summer 2017, said Stitt was hired to "build a program". They may exist, but I don't recall that. I recall being surprised when I saw that quote by Stitt this summer.

And, just answer the question. Don't try to change the goal post.

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- revise
- repair
- revise
- straighten out
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

Same

No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already did so which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Who the fuck cares about this nonsense...lets all be real humans not lawyers or computers for a minute....

Every god damn person in not only Montana but the country knows Montana hired Bob Stitt to bring to program back to the dominance it once had, dominance we lost due to administration panicking and the NCAA punishing us for.

He is here to make a team that went through a bad patch of sub-par performances back to a place of dominance. I think you can count that as rebuilding. Whatever you want to call it we all know why hes here.
 
BadlandsGrizFan said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- revise
- repair
- revise
- straighten out
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

Same

No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already did so which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Who the f*** cares about this nonsense...lets all be real humans not lawyers or computers for a minute....

Every god damn person in not only Montana but the country knows Montana hired Bob Stitt to bring to program back to the dominance it once had, dominance we lost due to administration panicking and the NCAA punishing us for.

He is here to make a team that went through a bad patch of sub-par performances back to a place of dominance. I think you can count that as rebuilding. Whatever you want to call it we all know why hes here.

I hope your day improves. You're living in a bubble if you think we had a "a bad patch of sub-par performances" before he got here. People are nuts on eGriz....you go to the playoffs, you have winning seasons, you beat the cats, achieve the majority of your goals - and yet is sub-par. The only sub-par years we've had, are last year, and the year Pflugrad didn't have JJ.

But then too eGriz is built for whiners, snivelers and people who like to bit**. :D
 
BadlandsGrizFan said:
SoldierGriz said:
uofmman1122 said:
SoldierGriz said:
Good grief, the non-scandals have been discussed ad nauseam on here. Few don't believe it had an impact.

Fill in the blank: Stitt was hired to____________________________________?

Your thought in bold above is front and center to what is happening RIGHT NOW...
Sure:

Stitt was hired to "get us back to where we used to be".

That implies that before he even got here we somehow fell down from where we were, no?

Last season was a step in the wrong direction, and this season is still too early to tell, but I don't see how saying we slipped a lot from 2011-2014 is so blasphemous.

It's not blasphemous; it's true. Some argue it started before then.

Ding, ding, ding on the fill in the blank answer. Stitt has led the team to exactly 2 wins in the last 7 games. Maybe it's too early to tell this season...maybe it is not. Honestly, the trajectory is NOT good. Stitt's job is to change that trajectory. We'll see.

So why did this meltdown come after the UW game??

Were you expecting us to win that??

People are loswing their minds after we got blasted by one of the best teams in all of college football....

News flash..NDSU woulda got beat by 50 against those guys.

Easy there....a little late to the party I see. I expected the Griz to lose just as they did...the discussion above is reference program trends. Please keep up.
 
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
So, where is the quote that backs this up? "As for the turn around quote, just search the Missoulian or SkylineSports pages, and you'll be covered." Note the words TURN AROUND.

Also, show us where Haslam or anyone, prior to summer 2017, said Stitt was hired to "build a program". They may exist, but I don't recall that. I recall being surprised when I saw that quote by Stitt this summer.

And, just answer the question. Don't try to change the goal post.

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- revise
- repair
- revise
- straighten out
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

Same

No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already included them which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Actually you were wrong, and I was right, and in your edit(above), quoted below, you both admitted it and agreed with me. This is the exact point that I was making. Rebuild includes "fix" and "repair", and those things didn't have to be done. Jeez, instead of just coming out of the gate to fight me on everything, why don't you, and others, calm down and actually look at what I am saying first.

"edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney."
 
BadlandsGrizFan said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- revise
- repair
- revise
- straighten out
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

Same

No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already did so which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Who the f*** cares about this nonsense...lets all be real humans not lawyers or computers for a minute....

Every god damn person in not only Montana but the country knows Montana hired Bob Stitt to bring to program back to the dominance it once had, dominance we lost due to administration panicking and the NCAA punishing us for.

He is here to make a team that went through a bad patch of sub-par performances back to a place of dominance. I think you can count that as rebuilding. Whatever you want to call it we all know why hes here.

The point is that bringing the program back to dominance, in the case of the Griz and where the program was (coming off of nos. 8 and 12 national rankings, wins over the Cats and playoffs), is not "rebuilding". Why are so many posters on egriz challenged in reading in comprehension? There is a very meaningful difference between getting back to dominance and rebuilding the program. The program is very good and always has been. It had just slipped from dominance. There is no reason to "rebuild" a very good and strong program.
 
Time to try and get this thread back on topic. It began with a poorly researched article from a Washington sports writer and somehow this validated the antiStitt gang...the last several pages are exercises in semantics...PR is correct in that Stitt made the statement he was hired to rebuild the program as it appeared nowhere else.
Consider this. Were any of you present in Haslam's office in December, 2014 when he was interviewing Stitt? Is it possible that Haslam tasked Stitt or any other candidate in consideration with "rebuilding" the program? I cannot with 100% certainty claim it was directly said, maybe just intimated. Despite your position that the program didn't need to be rebuilt, maybe Haslam has a different idea than you.
 
michigangriz said:
Time to try and get this thread back on topic. It began with a poorly researched article from a Washington sports writer and somehow this validated the antiStitt gang...the last several pages are exercises in semantics...PR is correct in that Stitt made the statement he was hired to rebuild the program as it appeared nowhere else.
Consider this. Were any of you present in Haslam's office in December, 2014 when he was interviewing Stitt? Is it possible that Haslam tasked Stitt or any other candidate in consideration with "rebuilding" the program? I cannot with 100% certainty claim it was directly said, maybe just intimated. Despite your position that the program didn't need to be rebuilt, maybe Haslam has a different idea than you.
How can anyone say after the last two years and all the roster turnover that we didn't sign on for a rebuild?

Seriously, if Haslam didn't sign on to that when he hired him, and this is all just now becoming a huge surprise, he's possibly the worst AD we've ever had.

Kent knew exactly what he was getting when he hired Stitt.
 
michigangriz said:
Time to try and get this thread back on topic. It began with a poorly researched article from a Washington sports writer and somehow this validated the antiStitt gang...the last several pages are exercises in semantics...PR is correct in that Stitt made the statement he was hired to rebuild the program as it appeared nowhere else.
Consider this. Were any of you present in Haslam's office in December, 2014 when he was interviewing Stitt? Is it possible that Haslam tasked Stitt or any other candidate in consideration with "rebuilding" the program? I cannot with 100% certainty claim it was directly said, maybe just intimated. Despite your position that the program didn't need to be rebuilt, maybe Haslam has a different idea than you.

I can assure you that I have different views than Haslam too, on multiple things. One is not hiring Hauck. Another is hiring someone from outside of Griz nation who did not come in and embrace enough of Griz nation. How do your former player friends/teammates feel, Michigan? I know what scores of former players and bigger supporters think on that point, and I am more positive on Stitt than any of them. I attended a wedding event recently, where a former UM player actually mentioned this subject in a wedding speech. (Hope the Griz do well, but if they don't, maybe that will accelerate bringing Hauck back.) Again, I like Stitt personally, and am positive and hopeful that this will be a good season.

And, if Haslam thought the team/program needed to be "rebuilt", then I would lose all confidence in him being UM's AD.

Mich, do you think a team, whose last 2 years had nos. 8 and 12 post-season national rankings, 2 wins over the Cats, 2 playoff appearances, no losses to weak teams, 10-2 and 9-5 records, high attendance, and little or no bad off field issues, needed to be "rebuilt"?

P.S. I have always found it a bit odd that athletic directors and sometimes university presidents, most of whom have never played college football and many of whom I don't think understand the game, often decide who should be hired as the football coach. I'd love to know what role and influence Engstrom had in the decision not to hire Hauck and to hire Stitt. Engstrom couldn't even run the university (other than into the ground), so I can't imagine he had any clue as to how to hire the right football coach. Hopefully, the right one was hired.
 
uofmman1122 said:
michigangriz said:
Time to try and get this thread back on topic. It began with a poorly researched article from a Washington sports writer and somehow this validated the antiStitt gang...the last several pages are exercises in semantics...PR is correct in that Stitt made the statement he was hired to rebuild the program as it appeared nowhere else.
Consider this. Were any of you present in Haslam's office in December, 2014 when he was interviewing Stitt? Is it possible that Haslam tasked Stitt or any other candidate in consideration with "rebuilding" the program? I cannot with 100% certainty claim it was directly said, maybe just intimated. Despite your position that the program didn't need to be rebuilt, maybe Haslam has a different idea than you.
How can anyone say after the last two years and all the roster turnover that we didn't sign on for a rebuild?

Seriously, if Haslam didn't sign on to that when he hired him, and this is all just now becoming a huge surprise, he's possibly the worst AD we've ever had.

Kent knew exactly what he was getting when he hired Stitt.

You have no clue whether Haslam knew exactly what he was getting into. Neither do I, but I know more than you do on the subject, would be my guess.
 
PlayerRep said:
uofmman1122 said:
michigangriz said:
Time to try and get this thread back on topic. It began with a poorly researched article from a Washington sports writer and somehow this validated the antiStitt gang...the last several pages are exercises in semantics...PR is correct in that Stitt made the statement he was hired to rebuild the program as it appeared nowhere else.
Consider this. Were any of you present in Haslam's office in December, 2014 when he was interviewing Stitt? Is it possible that Haslam tasked Stitt or any other candidate in consideration with "rebuilding" the program? I cannot with 100% certainty claim it was directly said, maybe just intimated. Despite your position that the program didn't need to be rebuilt, maybe Haslam has a different idea than you.
How can anyone say after the last two years and all the roster turnover that we didn't sign on for a rebuild?

Seriously, if Haslam didn't sign on to that when he hired him, and this is all just now becoming a huge surprise, he's possibly the worst AD we've ever had.

Kent knew exactly what he was getting when he hired Stitt.

You have no clue whether Haslam knew exactly what he was getting into. Neither do I, but I know more than you do on the subject, would be my guess.
Well, I know one of two things is true, either:

1. Haslam signed on to a rebuild, which Stitt has obviously been engineering since he started, or

2. Haslam didn't sign on to a rebuild, and yet Stitt has been rebuilding anyway, which would make Haslam incredibly incompetent.
 
PR, if you noticed, I agreed with you about where the comment originated. I am not here to pick a fight with you or anyone else. I am only suggesting the possibility that the term "rebuild" came from elsewhere...I do not claim that is what was said.
Every coach "builds" a program, no matter the previous success. Is Kirby Smart building or rebuilding Georgia post Mark Richt? I personally know Georgia fans who consider it a rebuild.
Again, I think the thread got stuck in semantics. Would you be more comfortable with the word "redirected"? Personally I do not think Delaney did a horrible job as many here have stated. The "but he kicked off twice" argument in a game we won by 20 plus is not proof to me of a bad coach.
To answer your question directly, due to many factors (not excuses) there had been some slippage in the program. Do I think it needed a total rebuild? No.
Full disclosure, I am a retired teacher, coach, athletic director. I do not profess to be an expert because of that, but I certainly understand the processes and dynamics involved, including the dynamic of coaching changes.
Coaching changes are ALWAYS difficult to some degree. Some work out very well, some so so, and some not good at all. With Stitt, it is not clear to me yet. Generally I like what has been done, it seems he has recruited good students and good citizens. This is valuable to me. Of course are they good football players? Time will time, but I personally want him to have until the end of of 2018.
Last point, any AD worth their salt knows the condition of their programs. I certainly did as AD, I am not claiming Haslam said rebuild, but if he did, then who I am I to disagree?
 
michigangriz said:
PR, if you noticed, I agreed with you about where the comment originated. I am not here to pick a fight with you or anyone else. I am only suggesting the possibility that the term "rebuild" came from elsewhere...I do not claim that is what was said.
Every coach "builds" a program, no matter the previous success. Is Kirby Smart building or rebuilding Georgia post Mark Richt? I personally know Georgia fans who consider it a rebuild.
Again, I think the thread got stuck in semantics. Would you be more comfortable with the word "redirected"? Personally I do not think Delaney did a horrible job as many here have stated. The "but he kicked off twice" argument in a game we won by 20 plus is not proof to me of a bad coach.
To answer your question directly, due to many factors (not excuses) there had been some slippage in the program. Do I think it needed a total rebuild? No.
Full disclosure, I am a retired teacher, coach, athletic director. I do not profess to be an expert because of that, but I certainly understand the processes and dynamics involved, including the dynamic of coaching changes.
Coaching changes are ALWAYS difficult to some degree. Some work out very well, some so so, and some not good at all. With Stitt, it is not clear to me yet. Generally I like what has been done, it seems he has recruited good students and good citizens. This is valuable to me. Of course are they good football players? Time will time, but I personally want him to have until the end of of 2018.
Last point, any AD worth their salt knows the condition of their programs. I certainly did as AD, I am not claiming Haslam said rebuild, but if he did, then who I am I to disagree?

I just wanted you view. I note that you didn't answer my question about what your friend/teammates think at this point. Yes, semantics or different wording, but to me that is important in this case. If Haslam asked for a rebuild, then I don't have confidence in him or his decision. If he hired Stitt to get the program back up closer to dominance, that, of course, is fine and good. If Haslam gave him leeway to do this, that is fine with me too. But not if he told Sitt to rebuild an already very good and storied program. I think we are largely on the same page here.

I too know a bit about coaching changes. Think my wife's family and mine has 18 current and former coaches. Some were high school AD's too. Had a coaching change before my senior year of college. The politics of universities, especially in a place with an inexperienced president who doesn't have a clue about sports, can interfere with good coaching selections in the modern era, in my view.

Regarding Georgia, I will ask my Georgia friends. My family actually goes to Georgia games from time to time and follows the program. Richt is the winningest Georgia coach since 1900. 50-17 in his last 5 years, with only 1 year under 10 wins. 10 conference losses in that period. Just couldn't win the conference. The new coach was 8-5 with 4 conference losses.
 
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- revise
- repair
- revise
- straighten out
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

Same

No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already included them which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Actually you were wrong, and I was right, and in your edit(above), quoted below, you both admitted it and agreed with me. This is the exact point that I was making. Rebuild includes "fix" and "repair", and those things didn't have to be done. Jeez, instead of just coming out of the gate to fight me on everything, why don't you, and others, calm down and actually look at what I am saying first.

"edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney."

No, quotes talked about build program, which means to upgrade or improve. Turn around program means same thing.

Rebuild means something totally different (you missed that) which is to fix or repair something. We both agree it wasn't broken. Upgrade/Improve does not mean fix/repair.

I know sometimes you struggle with simple logic - and that's okay. I understand - you've never played that game. And I have. :) My final word, although I'm positive you'll come up with something to say
 
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
ordigger said:
PlayerRep said:
No, they aren't the same. "Build" doesn't include these:

"- revise
- repair
- straighten out"

Feel free to show me any quotes from Haslam or anyone else associated with the running the program, where they said Stitt was hired to "turn around the program".

Hete's a link to a long article called "Blueprint for a Rebuild".

https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder

You do understand what a synonym is right? So lets try this again - I know you will spin away - even when wrong. I removed the words that did not match specifically, but since they also meant the same thing it matters little. No need to read the link - has nothing to do with synonyms.

I don't have to look up the quotes, you already included them which stated "build the program", so thank you for proving that point.

synonym [sin-uh-nim]
noun
1.
..having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as

Synomyns for "Turn Around"
- improve
- upgrade

Synomyns for "Build a Program"
- improve
- upgrade

edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney.

In the end it's all semantics - and even if proven wrong with 23 sources of information, actual quotes by people that wrote them, and God himself (assuming God is a he) telling you that something is the way it is - and you would argue and spin it as only you can do. Kudos to you...even when you're wrong.

Actually you were wrong, and I was right, and in your edit(above), quoted below, you both admitted it and agreed with me. This is the exact point that I was making. Rebuild includes "fix" and "repair", and those things didn't have to be done. Jeez, instead of just coming out of the gate to fight me on everything, why don't you, and others, calm down and actually look at what I am saying first.

"edit: In fairness I did look up the synonym for REBUILD (fix, repair). That insinuates that the team needed to be fixed, which it did not. It is, nor was broken - as you yourself have mentioned numerous times (and I agree with), when discussing Delaney."

No, quotes talked about build program, which means to upgrade or improve. Turn around program means same thing.

Rebuild means something totally different (you missed that) which is to fix or repair something. We both agree it wasn't broken. Upgrade/Improve does not mean fix/repair.

I know sometimes you struggle with simple logic - and that's okay. I understand - you've never played that game. And I have. :) My final word, although I'm positive you'll come up with something to say

Digger, you need to pay better attention. My discussion, starting with 1122, was about "turning around the program" and "rebuilding". See below quote (and there are rebuilding quotes too). 1122 said literally everyone including Stitt has said he was hired to turn around the program.

"uofmman1122 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:12 pm
PlayerRep wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:04 pm
PR: Some have said Stitt was hired to turn the program around?
1122: Yes...like almost literally everyone, including Stitt."

In my view, turning around a program and rebuilding a program are not the same as "building" a program. In fact, after disagreeing with me at first and saying rebuilding and building are the same (see your synonyms post), you later reversed in your edit, as well as above, and agreed with me. That was my point and the point I was discussing.

Here is a definition of "turn around". It certainly doesn't mean what you indicated above.

"turn around
phrasal verb of turn
1.move so as to face in the opposite direction.
"Alice turned around and walked down the corridor"
synonyms: change direction, change course, make a U-turn, about-face, turn around/about; informalpull a U-ey, do a one-eighty
"I turned and headed back""

I know what Stitt said this summer. As I said, I have never seen that previously from Stitt or Haslam. So far, no one has provided similar quotes from Haslam or anyone (prior to this summer), saying Stitt was hired to build the program.

Now, if you want to have a discussion about building the program, as opposed to bringing a very good program back up closer to dominance, we can also have that one. However, that was not the discussion I was having.
 
ordigger said:
The only sub-par years we've had, are last year, and the year Pflugrad didn't have JJ.

But then too eGriz is built for whiners, snivelers and people who like to bit**. :D
Maybe you would be a more believable poster if you kept your facts straight rather than labeling other posters whose opinions collide with yours. The head coach of the 2012 team that went 5-6 without JJ was Mick Delaney.
 
PlayerRep said:
Hopefully, the right one was hired.
My discomfort arises from this - that into the third season we are but hopeful. With the performance trajectory, we cannot yet be convinced. Hauck played for a NC in his second season; we were convinced.
 
kemajic said:
ordigger said:
The only sub-par years we've had, are last year, and the year Pflugrad didn't have JJ.

But then too eGriz is built for whiners, snivelers and people who like to bit**. :D
Maybe you would be a more believable poster if you kept your facts straight rather than labeling other posters whose opinions collide with yours. The head coach of the 2012 team that went 5-6 without JJ was Mick Delaney.

Pflu lost Selle early in his first season, I believe. I have made the same mistake as Digger just did.
 
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