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Can you explain the transfer rule to me?

717s7e

Well-known member
Use Michael Oguine as an example. He is a great player and a top student. He didn't redshirt. So, next year will be his last season??

Am I right in my assumption that he can't play a 5th year at Montana but he could transfer any play at any other school?

And, does that other school have to offer a grad degree program that UM doesn't have?

If any of that is true, it will be fun to watch the recruiting process that he will see after next season. Or, can he legally be contacted now about transferring at the end of next season??
 
717s7e said:
Am I right in my assumption that he can't play a 5th year at Montana but he could transfer any play at any other school?

Incorrect. As a collegiate athlete you have 5 years to play 4 years. Since Mike has played all 4 years he has been here, his eligibility is used up. He can't play for the Griz or anyone else after the next men's bb season.

The grad transfer rule you're thinking of is in the case of Jack Williams. He has played 3 years, will be graduating from his school in 3 years and joining UM and will be working toward a graduate degree and therefore eligible to play right away.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
717s7e said:
Am I right in my assumption that he can't play a 5th year at Montana but he could transfer any play at any other school?

Incorrect. As a collegiate athlete you have 5 years to play 4 years. Since Mike has played all 4 years he has been here, his eligibility is used up. He can't play for the Griz or anyone else after the next men's bb season.

The grad transfer rule you're thinking of is in the case of Jack Williams. He has played 3 years, will be graduating from his school in 3 years and joining UM and will be working toward a graduate degree and therefore eligible to play right away.

Jack Williams is actually a 5th-year senior. He played as a true freshman at Long Beach State before transferring to Pacific and sitting out. He then played two seasons and graduated in four years, giving him the ability to graduate transfer and play his fifth year at Montana.

If Michael Oguine earned his degree this spring, he could transfer and play his fourth and final year at another Division I school WITHOUT having to sit a year. If he simply transferred, he would still have that fourth and final year of eligibility remaining but he would have to sit out next season in order to use it. Andre Spight at Northern Colorado is an example of this. He played three years at Arizona State just like Oguine has at Montana. Spight transferred before last season, sat out last season and played his final year this last season.
 
Colter_Nuanez56 said:
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
717s7e said:
Am I right in my assumption that he can't play a 5th year at Montana but he could transfer any play at any other school?

Incorrect. As a collegiate athlete you have 5 years to play 4 years. Since Mike has played all 4 years he has been here, his eligibility is used up. He can't play for the Griz or anyone else after the next men's bb season.

The grad transfer rule you're thinking of is in the case of Jack Williams. He has played 3 years, will be graduating from his school in 3 years and joining UM and will be working toward a graduate degree and therefore eligible to play right away.

Jack Williams is actually a 5th-year senior. He played as a true freshman at Long Beach State before transferring to Pacific and sitting out. He then played two seasons and graduated in four years, giving him the ability to graduate transfer and play his fifth year at Montana.

If Michael Oguine earned his degree this spring, he could transfer and play his fourth and final year at another Division I school WITHOUT having to sit a year. If he simply transferred, he would still have that fourth and final year of eligibility remaining but he would have to sit out next season in order to use it. Andre Spight at Northern Colorado is an example of this. He played three years at Arizona State just like Oguine has at Montana. Spight transferred before last season, sat out last season and played his final year this last season.
Thanks for straightening that out, Colter. :thumb: I was thinking the question was "if Oguine played a fourth year, can he transfer and play somewhere else without sitting." I shoulda just stuck with the answer that I knew. :D
 
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

The rule doesn't permit a transfer to gain a 5th year of eligibility (that is never true).

So, the whole point of the rule is provide an incentive to graduate by permitting a graduated transfer to avoid the normal transfer rule requiring one to sit out a year.

So, was I dreaming about the requirement that the transfer school must have a grad program not available at the other school? Pardon me for beating the dead horse.
 
717s7e said:
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

The rule doesn't permit a transfer to gain a 5th year of eligibility (that is never true).

So, the whole point of the rule is provide an incentive to graduate by permitting a graduated transfer to avoid the normal transfer rule requiring one to sit out a year.

So, was I dreaming about the requirement that the transfer school must have a grad program not available at the other school? Pardon me for beating the dead horse.

Yes this is true...The school you transfer to has to have a grad program that your current school doesn't have.
 
SACCAT66 said:
717s7e said:
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

The rule doesn't permit a transfer to gain a 5th year of eligibility (that is never true).

So, the whole point of the rule is provide an incentive to graduate by permitting a graduated transfer to avoid the normal transfer rule requiring one to sit out a year.

So, was I dreaming about the requirement that the transfer school must have a grad program not available at the other school? Pardon me for beating the dead horse.

Yes this is true...The school you transfer to has to have a grad program that your current school doesn't have.

But if you are grad transferring with the main operative being to play football/basketball, you will intentionally pick a graduate degree your current school doesn't have...
 
I believe as we speak, the NCAA is looking into abolishing the transfer rule all together for hoops. This means a transfer would not have to sit a year if he or she transfers to another school. I personally would not like that at all, especially in the Big Sky. So many guys like Rorie or Oguine could easily leave with no repercussions or sitting.
 
HookedonGriz said:
I believe as we speak, the NCAA is looking into abolishing the transfer rule all together for hoops. This means a transfer would not have to sit a year if he or she transfers to another school. I personally would not like that at all, especially in the Big Sky. So many guys like Rorie or Oguine could easily leave with no repercussions or sitting.

Coaches already can do this. Regular students can already do this. Why not student athletes? I don't feel like "they're a good player and I don't want them to leave" is a worthy reason.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
HookedonGriz said:
I believe as we speak, the NCAA is looking into abolishing the transfer rule all together for hoops. This means a transfer would not have to sit a year if he or she transfers to another school. I personally would not like that at all, especially in the Big Sky. So many guys like Rorie or Oguine could easily leave with no repercussions or sitting.

Coaches already can do this. Regular students can already do this. Why not student athletes? I don't feel like "they're a good player and I don't want them to leave" is a worthy reason.

To each his own, I just don't like it. Can you imagine starting at UM, transfer to Wyoming, then head off to Oregon or UCLA whenever you want. I think it will have negative impact on the game.
 
Colter_Nuanez56 said:
SACCAT66 said:
717s7e said:
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

The rule doesn't permit a transfer to gain a 5th year of eligibility (that is never true).

So, the whole point of the rule is provide an incentive to graduate by permitting a graduated transfer to avoid the normal transfer rule requiring one to sit out a year.

So, was I dreaming about the requirement that the transfer school must have a grad program not available at the other school? Pardon me for beating the dead horse.

Yes this is true...The school you transfer to has to have a grad program that your current school doesn't have.

But if you are grad transferring with the main operative being to play football/basketball, you will intentionally pick a graduate degree your current school doesn't have...

Yep...It is what Shooter did when he left EWU, and what Prukop did when he left MSU...
 
717s7e said:
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

I'll use Davis Webb (QB for Texas Tech) as an example. He played as a true freshman, but lost the starting job first to Baker Mayfield (2013) and then to Pat Mahomes (2014) as a sophomore, backed him up for the 2015 season; Webb knew he wasn't going to play his senior season, but he'd already obtained his degree and had a year of eligibility left, so he transferred to Cal as a graduate transfer, STARTED at Cal his "senior" (5th) year. Turned out to be a pretty good move. Webb was named the Golden Bear's Season MVP and won the Reese's Senior Bowl MVP award. Webb was also nominated to the College Football All-America Team, and was a semi-finalist for both the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award and the Earl Campbell Tyler Rose Award, as well as an honorable mention All-Pac-12 choice of the league's coaches and the Pac-12 Newcomer of the Year. Webb was also in the final 15 for the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award.

So, instead of sitting on the bench his last year of eligibility, the fact he'd graduated allowed him to transfer and start, and got him drafted by the Giants in the 3rd round and a $4 million contract.

So yeah, many times the grass IS greener. :lol:
 
AZGrizFan said:
717s7e said:
My mistake, I thought Jack Williams was transferring so he could play a 5th year. Not so. The grad transfer rule permits a player to avoid the "one year sit-out rule" when transferring.



And, reading between the lines, I have to assume that any grad transfer is transferring just to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

I'll use Davis Webb (QB for Texas Tech) as an example. He played as a true freshman, but lost the starting job first to Baker Mayfield (2013) and then to Pat Mahomes (2014) as a sophomore, backed him up for the 2015 season; Webb knew he wasn't going to play his senior season, but he'd already obtained his degree and had a year of eligibility left, so he transferred to Cal as a graduate transfer, STARTED at Cal his "senior" (5th) year. Turned out to be a pretty good move. Webb was named the Golden Bear's Season MVP and won the Reese's Senior Bowl MVP award. Webb was also nominated to the College Football All-America Team, and was a semi-finalist for both the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award and the Earl Campbell Tyler Rose Award, as well as an honorable mention All-Pac-12 choice of the league's coaches and the Pac-12 Newcomer of the Year. Webb was also in the final 15 for the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award.

So, instead of sitting on the bench his last year of eligibility, the fact he'd graduated allowed him to transfer and start, and got him drafted by the Giants in the 3rd round and a $4 million contract.

So yeah, many times the grass IS greener. :lol:

And this is a great example of how this works. I'm of the position that kids need to sit if they transfer, but maybe only half the season. It's not as punishing as a full season, but deters them enough perhaps not to just float around different places. I agree it would be detrimental to the game if there wasn't some penalty. Yes, coaches can do it, as well as other students. Students, though, sometimes lose credits and other things, so sometimes there is punishment involved. Coaches are employees, so just like getting a different job. The "athletes are like employees" argument holds no water with me...they are there to get an education and their sport helps them receive that for free.
 
A coach (let's say an assistant coach) can switch colleges - sit on one bench one week and another team's bench the next week. Does it do any good for players to be able to do that? I don't think so. But there should be a reasonable rule that gives the players some flexibility. But, to treat coaches and players the same doesn't work either.
 
717s7e said:
A coach (let's say an assistant coach) can switch colleges - sit on one bench one week and another team's bench the next week. Does it do any good for players to be able to do that? I don't think so. But there should be a reasonable rule that gives the players some flexibility. But, to treat coaches and players the same doesn't work either.

Personally I'm of the belief that if a coach leaves between seasons EVERY LOI should be null and void.
 
AZDoc said:
And this is a great example of how this works. I'm of the position that kids need to sit if they transfer, but maybe only half the season. It's not as punishing as a full season, but deters them enough perhaps not to just float around different places. I agree it would be detrimental to the game if there wasn't some penalty. Yes, coaches can do it, as well as other students. Students, though, sometimes lose credits and other things, so sometimes there is punishment involved. Coaches are employees, so just like getting a different job. The "athletes are like employees" argument holds no water with me...they are there to get an education and their sport helps them receive that for free.

Only it doesn't. Books, room and board, meal plans, etc still have to be paid for. This isn't your grand-pappys university where you could go to school for $500 bucks a semester and come out of school with no student loan debt or get your foot in the door for a decent job with only a high school education.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
AZDoc said:
And this is a great example of how this works. I'm of the position that kids need to sit if they transfer, but maybe only half the season. It's not as punishing as a full season, but deters them enough perhaps not to just float around different places. I agree it would be detrimental to the game if there wasn't some penalty. Yes, coaches can do it, as well as other students. Students, though, sometimes lose credits and other things, so sometimes there is punishment involved. Coaches are employees, so just like getting a different job. The "athletes are like employees" argument holds no water with me...they are there to get an education and their sport helps them receive that for free.

Only it doesn't. Books, room and board, meal plans, etc still have to be paid for. This isn't your grand-pappys university where you could go to school for $500 bucks a semester and come out of school with no student loan debt or get your foot in the door for a decent job with only a high school education.

True...let me clarify a bit. I am also in favor of cost of attendance as the other students get. i don't consider that "paying" them. That should be addressed and mandatory. Hopefully things even themselves out soon so that the UM can provide this.
 
Devil's advocate here: Can't the scholarship athlete take out a small college loan, like $4,000 per year ($300 per month) - unlike the normal student who has to take out a big college loan? And, the "poor" student athlete qualifies for a Pell Grant which is a "free" $6,000 per year that doesn't have to be repaid.

And, with EEO, we will have to do this for all of the sports. At some point, we are talking real money. But if the NCAA will do this out of chump change from the Road to the Final Four, I am all for it.
 
AZDoc said:
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
AZDoc said:
And this is a great example of how this works. I'm of the position that kids need to sit if they transfer, but maybe only half the season. It's not as punishing as a full season, but deters them enough perhaps not to just float around different places. I agree it would be detrimental to the game if there wasn't some penalty. Yes, coaches can do it, as well as other students. Students, though, sometimes lose credits and other things, so sometimes there is punishment involved. Coaches are employees, so just like getting a different job. The "athletes are like employees" argument holds no water with me...they are there to get an education and their sport helps them receive that for free.

Only it doesn't. Books, room and board, meal plans, etc still have to be paid for. This isn't your grand-pappys university where you could go to school for $500 bucks a semester and come out of school with no student loan debt or get your foot in the door for a decent job with only a high school education.

True...let me clarify a bit. I am also in favor of cost of attendance as the other students get. i don't consider that "paying" them. That should be addressed and mandatory. Hopefully things even themselves out soon so that the UM can provide this.
Ah. I see. We're on the exact same page. Thanks for the clarification. As a former student athlete, it grinds my gears when folks say we get to go to school for free.

When I went, I got a scholarship which paid for tuition, then a Pell Grant, a smallish loan (6000 or so), plus work study (i.e - a job on campus for 20 hours a week). I still had to have a part time job on top of that, plus a full load of credits, plus doing my atheltics...you could say I was lucky because i didn't have team meetings to do on top of that.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
AZDoc said:
And this is a great example of how this works. I'm of the position that kids need to sit if they transfer, but maybe only half the season. It's not as punishing as a full season, but deters them enough perhaps not to just float around different places. I agree it would be detrimental to the game if there wasn't some penalty. Yes, coaches can do it, as well as other students. Students, though, sometimes lose credits and other things, so sometimes there is punishment involved. Coaches are employees, so just like getting a different job. The "athletes are like employees" argument holds no water with me...they are there to get an education and their sport helps them receive that for free.

Only it doesn't. Books, room and board, meal plans, etc still have to be paid for. This isn't your grand-pappys university where you could go to school for $500 bucks a semester and come out of school with no student loan debt or get your foot in the door for a decent job with only a high school education.

If you’re willing to get your hands dirty you can make GREAT money as a welder, plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc. There’s LOTS of jobs for people with HS educations if they’re willing to work.
 
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