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Quick NCAA Takes

citygriz

Well-known member
1. The refs are ruining the game. Way too many ticky-tack fouls called, a couple against Gonzaga's big guys that might have derailed a less experienced team. Just as NBA players are so much more skilled than college players, so too are NBA refs so much more skilled than college refs. Sure, they make mistakes, but full-time salaries, and the constant on-court discussions between players and refs that you see in the NBA I believe make the refs more keen in their observations, and more consistent in their calls. College basketball is now a billion dollar business, but it relies on part-time moonlighters to referee their games. You get what you pay for--and it shows.

2. Ya gotta make shots! Oregon had more than a dozen turnovers against North Carolina, and missed shot after shot, yet only lost by one point. Finally, it just comes down to who can shoot the damned ball. Who can make a basket? The great Tyler Dorsey, Mr. March himself, turned into a Fool on April 1, and it cost his team dearly.

3. Ya gotta make free throws! One key way the college game is different from the NBA is, in college it's one-and-one up to ten fouls, two after that, where in the NBA it's an automatic two shots after five fouls. So the onus is on you in college to make the front end of those one-and-ones, where a bad shooter in the NBA gets a second chance (and one point per possession is not the worst thing in the world.) You can lose a lot of points at the free throw line, and a lot of close games late, as our Griz found out this year.

4. Skills aside--and these kids are not NEARLY as good as the pros--these have been fun exciting games to watch. In fact, I would rate the UConn--Mississippi State women's game as one of the best I've seen, ever. March Madness remains my all-time favorite sporting event, more so when our Griz are in it.
 
...biggest complaint about the refs...
...inability to quickly read the replay calls...
...stealing the flow/momentum of the game...

... :rant:...
 
zengriz said:
...biggest complaint about the refs...
...inability to quickly read the replay calls...
...stealing the flow/momentum of the game...

... :rant:...

...yes that is true but it is...
...the least of my complaints...
...among their many failures....
 
citay said:
1. The refs are ruining the game. Way too many ticky-tack fouls called, a couple against Gonzaga's big guys that might have derailed a less experienced team. Just as NBA players are so much more skilled than college players, so too are NBA refs so much more skilled than college refs. Sure, they make mistakes, but full-time salaries, and the constant on-court discussions between players and refs that you see in the NBA I believe make the refs more keen in their observations, and more consistent in their calls. College basketball is now a billion dollar business, but it relies on part-time moonlighters to referee their games. You get what you pay for--and it shows.

2. Ya gotta make shots! Oregon had more than a dozen turnovers against North Carolina, and missed shot after shot, yet only lost by one point. Finally, it just comes down to who can shoot the damned ball. Who can make a basket? The great Tyler Dorsey, Mr. March himself, turned into a Fool on April 1, and it cost his team dearly.

3. Ya gotta make free throws! One key way the college game is different from the NBA is, in college it's one-and-one up to ten fouls, two after that, where in the NBA it's an automatic two shots after five fouls. So the onus is on you in college to make the front end of those one-and-ones, where a bad shooter in the NBA gets a second chance (and one point per possession is not the worst thing in the world.) You can lose a lot of points at the free throw line, and a lot of close games late, as our Griz found out this year.

4. Skills aside--and these kids are not NEARLY as good as the pros--these have been fun exciting games to watch. In fact, I would rate the UConn--Mississippi State women's game as one of the best I've seen, ever. March Madness remains my all-time favorite sporting event, more so when our Griz are in it.

How about blocking out and rebounding...heavens there's some laziness out there
 
AZDoc said:
citay said:
1. The refs are ruining the game. Way too many ticky-tack fouls called, a couple against Gonzaga's big guys that might have derailed a less experienced team. Just as NBA players are so much more skilled than college players, so too are NBA refs so much more skilled than college refs. Sure, they make mistakes, but full-time salaries, and the constant on-court discussions between players and refs that you see in the NBA I believe make the refs more keen in their observations, and more consistent in their calls. College basketball is now a billion dollar business, but it relies on part-time moonlighters to referee their games. You get what you pay for--and it shows.

2. Ya gotta make shots! Oregon had more than a dozen turnovers against North Carolina, and missed shot after shot, yet only lost by one point. Finally, it just comes down to who can shoot the damned ball. Who can make a basket? The great Tyler Dorsey, Mr. March himself, turned into a Fool on April 1, and it cost his team dearly.

3. Ya gotta make free throws! One key way the college game is different from the NBA is, in college it's one-and-one up to ten fouls, two after that, where in the NBA it's an automatic two shots after five fouls. So the onus is on you in college to make the front end of those one-and-ones, where a bad shooter in the NBA gets a second chance (and one point per possession is not the worst thing in the world.) You can lose a lot of points at the free throw line, and a lot of close games late, as our Griz found out this year.

4. Skills aside--and these kids are not NEARLY as good as the pros--these have been fun exciting games to watch. In fact, I would rate the UConn--Mississippi State women's game as one of the best I've seen, ever. March Madness remains my all-time favorite sporting event, more so when our Griz are in it.
How about blocking out and rebounding...heavens there's some laziness out there
Not sure it's laziness, in a strict sense ... I think training and motivation has a lot to do with it. Blocking out and fighting for rebounds takes skill and extra effort ... and a certain knack for it. (I include the latter because some skilled and motivated players just seem to be way better at it than others.) And big rebound numbers do get noticed when the "talking heads" review the post-game stats. BUT ... how often have you seen a rebound (even with a short-range put-back) featured on SportCenter? I would venture to say never. In our current media-driven culture, actions that don't get big attention, don't get a high priority.
 
The South Carolina women, a surprise to everyone outside the South, has shown how to win without depending upon the 3 pt shot. In their national championship game, they tried only 3, choosing instead to rembember the name of the game is basketball and played like it. I wish UM could recruit down here or have some sort of presence. These young women know how to play. Men, too, for that matter. One missed shot and they would be playing the NCAA favorite team, Monday. Instead, it's Gonzaga.big shrug, here, but if they can beat UND the basketball world would rejoice.
 
citay said:
1. The refs are ruining the game. Way too many ticky-tack fouls called, a couple against Gonzaga's big guys

...citay the guru a griz bball...
...pretty perceptive on this call here...
...rendered the championship unwatchable...

... :wtf: ...
 
The best and the worst of college basketball on full display last night.

Best: The atmosphere--the color, the tension, the emotion. Kids being kids, with all their spontaneity. The "sudden death" aspect of it all. Finally, the heart. You don't get heart like this at the pro level.

Worst: The refs. Don't know if it's the strict college rules, or absolute incompetence, but the refs totally ruined--not to mention, decided--this game last night. Basketball is a game of rhythm and momentum, and the refs completely destroyed it. Almost unwatchable at points.

More worst: The incompetence of the players. You can't watch a pro game without one, two, three or more jaw-dropping exclamations over an incredible play. I'm not trying to be a snob here, just saying that after a season of watching almost every Warriors game, watching that game last night was like watching the Special Olympics. Karnowski missing shot after shot at the rim; guys on both sides clanking wide-open jump shots. I can't recall one single spectacular play last night, of the kind a Steph Curry delivers all by himself, several times a game. If it weren't for a keen rooting interest in this game, I could not have watched it all the way through.
 
citay said:
The best and the worst of college basketball on full display last night.

Best: The atmosphere--the color, the tension, the emotion. Kids being kids, with all their spontaneity. The "sudden death" aspect of it all. Finally, the heart. You don't get heart like this at the pro level.

Worst: The refs. Don't know if it's the strict college rules, or absolute incompetence, but the refs totally ruined--not to mention, decided--this game last night. Basketball is a game of rhythm and momentum, and the refs completely destroyed it. Almost unwatchable at points.

More worst: The incompetence of the players. You can't watch a pro game without one, two, three or more jaw-dropping exclamations over an incredible play. I'm not trying to be a snob here, just saying that after a season of watching almost every Warriors game, watching that game last night was like watching the Special Olympics. Karnowski missing shot after shot at the rim; guys on both sides clanking wide-open jump shots. I can't recall one single spectacular play last night, of the kind a Steph Curry delivers all by himself, several times a game. If it weren't for a keen rooting interest in this game, I could not have watched it all the way through.


It was an ugly game, simply put. Both teams played solid defense, which changed some shots, but which didn't really affect the the simple fact that both teams shot horrendous percentages all over the floor. I believe that game flow can affect shooting percentages... so I do believe that poor officiating and a constant interruption of the game will affect those shooting percentages.

Which brings me to your second point, citay: The state of officiating in the NCAA is total chaos. The last two seasons have forced a complete act of terrorism on the complete concept of game flow in basketball. So many times this year I've seen coaches and players completely baffled by poor calls (almost always fouls). Players can and do adjust to the rules of the game and learn that -- if a new rule tweak means you can no longer do such & such -- you change. But that hasn't worked with the calling of fouls. The new rules have not been implemented uniformly by officials and by leagues. Thus, players have to make in-game adjustments. But when a player finds himself -- suddenly -- with three fouls and 20-plus minutes left to play, his/her style of play has to be changed. That's tough. When that happens to 7 or 8 players on the floor (as happened in last night's game) the flow of the game changes. What you get is ugly basketball. Below is a graphic analysis from Business Insider to support my argument.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-tournament-championship-refereeing-officiating-bad-2017-4

The state of officiating in NCAA basketball is in disarray. I don't see it getting fixed soon. That's a bad omen for college basketball, because people decide not to attend the "next game" because "tonight's game" was so bad. Attendance figures go down. Normally, you'd expect that NOT to be the case in a championship tournament... but this year the NCAA tourney proved that officials do NOT and can NOT call consistent games. I don't think it's incompetence; I think it's that the officials are as confused as the players.

I have a feeling the NCAA is hearing about this right now. But I don't have a good feeling that NCAA officials have a clue about just how bad the mess they've wrought actually is. Change needs to come fast.

I'd suggest a simple (too simple, I fear) remedy: base college hoops rules ENTIRELY on the NBA game (with the exception of fines for flagrant fouls, of course). Return to a four-quarter game. Allow for continuation fouls. Allow more in-paint big-man body contact. Allow six fouls. And, yes... strongly consider eliminating zone defenses. Perhaps even require some form of standards-based, training-based certification for refs. Then pay them more. Then create a classification system to weed out those that can't ref.

I could go on but this is enough. But I see red flags. College basketball is in dire straits. There are incredible fan bases in high school and professional basketball. In between, fans are disgusted with the college game. That means the NCAA is not doing the job. Things have to be changed soon.
 
....I actually think.....both the NBA.....and NCAA.... should adopt.....the international key......
 
grizzlyjournal said:
It was an ugly game, simply put. ... The state of officiating in NCAA basketball is in disarray. I don't see it getting fixed soon. ...
We stopped watching the game, live. Not sure exactly when, but it was in the first half and the Zags had a small lead. Between time-outs and foul shots, and the two teams having scored (maybe) 40 points between them, it was just excruciating to try to watch it. So we taped the rest, looking in just once in awhile.

Having seen the final stats and read all the comments, we've deleted the recording. Might have been a great game between two very good, well-matched teams. But it clearly wasn't. I mean, How do you call 44 fouls in 40 minutes of basketball? :eek:

We've seen worse, of course, in the Big Sky. But the ultimate championship game? C'MON!
 
There is something seriously wrong with a sport that willfully removes from the floor the game's most involved (see best) players for the rest of the game turning it into the kind of unwatchable debacle we saw last night. With much of the second half remaining the Zag's "bigs," Karnowski and Collins were sentenced to tiptoeing on egg shells while the Heels drove the basket against token opposition turning the national championship into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Beyond egregious acts to maim an opponent, what would football be like if a handful of 15 yarders got a player removed permanently from the game? Ditto for ice hockey. If the NCAA can't indoctrinate its officials from calling every touch foul then maybe they need to change the number of disqualifying fouls to 6 or even 7. After a great tournament through the Final Four last night's finale was a depressing snoozer periodically punctuated by some actual basketball.
 
grizindabox said:
LowellVandal said:
grizindabox said:
....I actually think.....both the NBA.....and NCAA.... should adopt.....the international key......

Even international games don't use the international key anymore...

....didn't realize that.....

I didn't realize that it was done in 2010. Just noticed it myself during the Rio game highlights.
 
So check out this Curry pass last night. This is the kind of thing you just don't see at the college level--not that you see it often at the pro level either. Scroll down to the Warriors game, click on the link, wait out the ad. It's worth it.

OOPS. LINK NO LONGER WORKS.

http://www.espn.com/nba/scoreboard
 
...got great respect for you...
...there is no doubt that is a great pass...
...if you overlook the double dribble and the travel...

... :cool: ...
 
Agree on the UConn v. Miss St. game being a great game and one of better games I have ever watched.

Was so irked that the refs tried to give the game to UConn at the end with what I thought was a bogus call from the video. My view is that it was the wrong call (the defender was reaching up to block a lob pass and looking away from the offensive player, and the offensive player flopped a bit), and it shouldn't have been made at a critical time at the end of the game. Thank god for Itty Bitty's heroics, with the great defensive play and great shot to the win the game.
 
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