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Questions for those in the know

B

billgrizfan

Well-known member
I'm curious so a couple of questions for those who know:

1. Do we ever pull a guard to block?
2. Is there ever a lead blocking back?
3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses?
4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking.
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?
6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work?
 
billgrizfan said:
I'm curious so a couple of questions for those who know:

1. Do we ever pull a guard to block?
2. Is there ever a lead blocking back?
3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses?
4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking.
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?
6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work?
Click to expand...
Mostly concerned with this year only, a team which I have not yet observed.
 
billgrizfan said:
I'm curious so a couple of questions for those who know:

1. Do we ever pull a guard to block?
2. Is there ever a lead blocking back?
3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses?
4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking.
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?
6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work?
Click to expand...
1. yes
2. no
3. sure, why not.
4. 30% harder.
5. fools defenses to be inconsistent.
6. Not really. Only so many pages fit in the playbook binder. Have to remove some for new plays.
 
billgrizfan said:
I'm curious so a couple of questions for those who know:

1. Do we ever pull a guard to block? No, they stay right there at MSP
2. Is there ever a lead blocking back? No, they are made of flesh and blood, not a soft metal
3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses? Here, the house takes 60%
4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking. Somewhere between butter and ice cream
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis? Because scissors cuts paper and film.
6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work? Do we have to explain why, when a Griz athlete, especially a QB, is making passes at Stocks, no good can come of it?
Click to expand...
 
billgrizfan said:
I'm curious so a couple of questions for those who know:

1. Do we ever pull a guard to block?
2. Is there ever a lead blocking back?
3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses?
4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking.
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?
6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work?
Click to expand...

We have yet to have a QB that can run Stitts offense the way it is designed to be ran. We will see what the 3 this year can do. I expect improvement from the last 2 years.
 
8 QBS....3 years....Pretty soon can't blame on QB and logically need to take a hard look at keeping "the system" As many have said this is crunch time for Stitt to prove it works.
 
1. Do we ever pull a guard to block? Yes we do sometimes, however that slows down the run game and we ditched a lot of that last year when we had trouble getting up the field. I expect to see more of that this year than previous.

2. Is there ever a lead blocking back? Yes, in the double split shotgun you will have one back present to run a route, lead block or chip block. sometimes the QB will alter this at the line of course and read the play to ensure results.

3. Are our splits the same as with most spread offenses? yes and no. depends. sets are similar but we do things different sometimes with the schemes and rotations. I wouldn't say its different than "the spread" but its a variation of the system.

4. How hard is it to make a run block when 70% or more of practice is pass blocking. not as difficult as it would seem. Most of the plays have the same blocking scheme run or pass as a lot of them are run pass options. when we call a direct run play the line formation could be slightly different and young oline players sometimes struggle with the transition on how use the same formation and adjust the use of their body to create run gaps VS hold the line on pass plays. It comes with running the system and being a veteran/student of the game.

5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.

6. The pass that led to the Phillips interception was off the hands of the receiver and Coach Stitt said we might throw out that play. Is this like the old days when we used to draw up plays on the napkins at the Stocks then them out when they didn't work? sort of yes. Stitt and company work all offseason to change plays, watch film and adjust to how the D tries to attack him. This is not madden where you just run Slot post go on every team with success. most likely Stitt drew up some new formations and adjustments in the Redzone due to our struggles last year. He then threw it a lot in the redzone during scrimmage to see how defenders react to the play. the problem with that play in particular is that it did not create any true gaps between the D and the WR. thus leading to quick tackles. In the redzone and on 3rd and short. The O lives off of getting that gap and separating from the D. 2 yards of gap in the redzone means a TD which is why slants, picks and double routes are so common in the redzone. If you watch tape of the griz last year and the year before you can see how the D adjusted to sets we were running in the redzone and they would collapse inward or "middle heavy" we ran a lot of crosses and in outs and that made it real tough to get away from dbs who then could shrink down on the outside. We had some success going up and out where the D's were backing off but we often had over throws or issues getting the ball there. I think our QBs this year will help with that. Being more mobile allows the QB to roll out and the backside will have to defend WRs that are behind their back. It will make the throw to the back out easier and should open some leaks to the back of the endzone areas for the H and RBs.
 
Whoa MtGriz, excellent overwhelming response to a rather inane list of questions. I like and respect your football expertise
 
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
 
kemajic said:
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
Click to expand...

so is ours the only offense that defenses can disguise against? does our defense not disguise coverages?
 
kemajic said:
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
Click to expand...

Great post, completely agree.
 
G-BEARS said:
kemajic said:
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
Click to expand...

Great post, completely agree.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree, yes it is hard to uncover good D schemes. The offense is also designed to be hard to hide your scheme against. we are gonna spread you out and we are gonna send someone in motion....two of the most difficult things to adjust too if your hiding your scheme. If you review tape and actually look at the plays....i would say BG did a pretty good job of knowing what the D was in. He didnt get fooled all that much. He actually made great reads a lot of the time. However, he was hesitant about challenging 1-1 coverage and he went to the high % pass a little too much and didnt stress or push the D. Also when we had a hard time running, it took away a lot of our deeper routes and made him push the ball outside and short and those are not easy passes even for the best. I think it was a product of multiple things on why we struggled. It was not the scheme that was bad, when we had time and had a run game we were making good reads and moved the ball a ton. Inconsistent oline play and WR play caused a ton of issues. It was not so much that we didnt understand the D.
 
AZGrizFan said:
kemajic said:
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
Click to expand...

so is ours the only offense that defenses can disguise against? does our defense not disguise coverages?
Click to expand...
Of course not; don't be so simple. As stated above Stitt's offense relies heavily on the QB reading coverages. DI defenses handle this much better than DII defenses. Many offenses don't put this burden on the QB; they run their play, saying, "Here, can you stop me?" They call plays anticipating coverages for situations. Sometimes they're wrong and the D wins. But OL and QB play are far easier to execute and the defenses have to react.
 
Stitts offense is number based. The quarterback counts the number of defenders and where they are playing on the field. If a numerical advantage is found by running or passing the ball than that is the play they run. The problem they faced last season was the defense could get pressure and stop the run with very few players up front. They doubled the outside receivers and made life tough for em. The oline and the running game HAVE to improve if this offense is going to work. If the defense can drop 7 or 8 defenders into coverage AND still stop the run than they are screwed. I imagine the tempo coach Stitt wants to run would make it hard for teams to disguise coverage. They would be more worried about lining up than what they were going to disguise. If a quarterback can count to 6 he can run this offense.
 
grizaremoregooder said:
If a quarterback can count to 6 he can run this offense.
Click to expand...
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?

Stitt himself has commented on numerous occasions that a QB has to be in this system for quite some time to be able to run it. Sounds like it's a bit more than counting to 6. All 8 could count to 6 and we have some pretty bad results mixed in.
 
kemajic said:
mtgrizfankb said:
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?I don't think we have had 8 have we? I think just 6 lol. But regardless this offense is not like others. Stitt asks his QB to decision make all the time, every play. I am not talking about reading the safety, I am referring to reading the whole D scheme and making the right play call at the line...then making the right read on the pass(or run). Most QBs are really used to getting a play, reading the coverage and then going through progressions. Stitts system asks the QB to Read the coverage, Read the line, read the blitz, adjust (sometimes choose run or pass), snap the ball, read the reaction and then go through progressions. Its just a deeper system but doing all this should make the during play reading more simplistic and successful. its a system that is really effective at finding the correct player who will be open...but you have to understand what to look for. on any given play you might have a run pass option and 3 different WR route options. you have to decide and be on the page of the WRs and RBs if you are not...your timing is off and it will be a lot of what brady had last year. This is also why I am big on phillips rather than the others right now. The WRs have seemed to like his leadership and they are usually on the same page. Hill right now is not and runs and Jensen is not on the same page and throwing the ball to different routes.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is with good DI scouting, defenses can disguise their coverages, which we saw a lot of, particularly as the season progressed. Compare NDSU defense in first game 2015 to last game 2015. Compare 1st half SDSU 2015 to second half SDSU 2015; a coaching staff that was able to adjust mid game. Defenses in the second half of 2016 had this figured out; remember NAU seeming knowing every play that was run? Gregorak certainly understood this and applied it well in the embarrassing loss to MSU. Asking an FCS QB with limited experience to detect disguised defensive coverages is a tall order.
Click to expand...

Brady's problem wasn't failing to recognize or uncover the disguise, it was his predictable response to the defense tricks. He checked into the same throw. If he would have faked the predictable pass and could tuck and actually run once in a while the over committed defenses would have been regularly gashed. We will see that happen this year. If you have more than one counter to a counterpunch you will be successful.
 
Why do defenses find it so easy to defend Stitt's offense? In my opinion its because it makes no (significant) use of misdirection. It relies on hurry up to the line in one of a very few base sets and rely on the QB and receivers to correctly identify the defense exactly the same way then execute perfectly. The defense rarely has to react to the offense doing anything different. Case in point: the dumb QB keeper goal line play with linemen trying to shove him into the end zone. Worked once, maybe twice then got stuffed how many times after that? Even after failing, the play was tried again. Knowing it got stuffed last time, how about putting a receiver in motion back to the center of the field and handoff for a run wide? Probably would have walked in untouched. Nope, all the D had to do was pack the box again and again. The play was DOA before the ball was even snapped. Motion, shifts, and play action help to disguise an offense and make the defense think and maybe pause for even just an instant. Stitt's offense is very kind to a defense. All they have to do is play assignment football. Easy peasy. Even the Bobcants managed to do that.
 
I understand the way this offense adjusts or should adjust to what the defense is showing. What I don't understand is why our defense doesn't adjust to in-game situations against the opposing offense.
 
Gaeilge1 said:
I understand the way this offense adjusts or should adjust to what the defense is showing. What I don't understand is why our defense doesn't adjust to in-game situations against the opposing offense.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that's the learning curve that Coach Semore has gone through from last year. If that's NOT the case, in reality, the offense isn't what will cost games, it's the defense.
 
kemajic said:
grizaremoregooder said:
If a quarterback can count to 6 he can run this offense.
Click to expand...
5. We've gone through about 8 QB's in the last 3 years and none of them seems to be able to handle the offense for a significant amount of time. At least on paper and some film it looks like we picked up the right people so why can't they adjust to this offense on a consistent basis?

Stitt himself has commented on numerous occasions that a QB has to be in this system for quite some time to be able to run it. Sounds like it's a bit more than counting to 6. All 8 could count to 6 and we have some pretty bad results mixed in.
Click to expand...
I would argue that the bigger problem lies with the offensive line and the running backs. The best running back Stit's offense has seen is John Nguyen behind a bad offensive line. The quarterback play will be better in this offense when they have a running game.
 
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